E302 | Why 51% of Subscribers Cancel Each Year—and How to Reduce Voluntary Churn

Today on the show, we have Priya Lakshminarayanan, CPO of Recurly, a subscription management platform empowering brands like Twitch, PupBox, Sprout Social, and Pipedrive to launch, scale, and optimize subscription experiences.

In this episode, we dive deep into Recurly's 2026 State of Subscriptions report, uncovering surprising trends that challenge conventional wisdom about churn. 

We explore why "selective churn" might actually reflect stronger consumer intent rather than fatigue, and why the pause button has evolved from a red flag into a strategic retention tool.

We discuss the dramatic shift in subscriber behavior, including why 51% of consumers cancelled at least one subscription in the last 12 months, how micro-subscriptions are becoming the new trial experience in an AI-driven world, and why traditional free trials are becoming cost-prohibitive as LLM costs rise.

Finally, we tackle the loyalty paradox: why transparency and easy cancellation actually drive long-term retention, how annual subscription renewals have become critical inflection points, and why the best retention strategy might be proactively canceling customers who aren't using your service.

Churn FM is sponsored by Vitally, the all-in-one Customer Success Platform.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Don't treat churn as goodbye. Those subscribers are still yours to win back if you put your heart and mind to it.

[00:00:16] Andrew Michael: This is Churn.FM, the podcast for subscription economy pros. Each week we hear how the world's fastest-growing companies are tackling churn and using retention to fuel their growth.

[00:00:28] VO: How do you build a habit-forming product? We crossed over that magic threshold to negative churn. You need to invest in customer success. It always comes down to retention and engagement. Completely bootstrap, profitable, and rowing.

[00:00:42] Andrew Michael: Strategies, tactics, and ideas brought together to help your business thrive in the subscription economy. I'm your host, Andrew Michael, and here's today's episode. 

[00:00:52] Andrew Michael: Hey Priya, welcome to the show.

[00:00:53] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Thank you so much, Andrew. I'm excited to be here.

[00:00:56] Andrew Michael: It's great to have you. For the listeners, Priya is the CPO of Recurly, empowering brands to launch, scale, and optimise subscription experiences that turn customers into loyal communities. They're trusted by innovators like Twitch, PupBox, Sprout Social, Pipedrive, and more. Prior to Recurly, Priya was the VP of Product Management, Growth, Monetization, Risk, and Brex, and the Director of Product Management at both Facebook and Commerce and PayPal. So Priya is also an advisor for Foundation Capital. My first question for you today, Priya, is what has kept you in the FinTech space throughout your career?

[00:01:29] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I think moving money moves the world and there's a lot of innovation still to be had, believe it or not, even after multiple decades of innovation and growth in FinTech. And so I've sort of enjoyed that opportunity to try new things even within that space each time I make a move. So that's what has kept me here.

[00:01:52] Andrew Michael: Yeah. Whose motto was moving money moves the world? Was it any one of the previous companies? It sounds like a brand slogan.

[00:01:59] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I just came up with it.

[00:02:00] Andrew Michael: You just came up with it, yeah. It sounded like a PayPal thing or something like that, but very nice. And so you joined Recurly about a year and a half ago now. What's the experience been like? What are some of the challenges you've been excited about tackling since joining?

[00:02:16] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah. Recurly has been around since 2009. They are a well-known brand in the subscription economy. The exciting part for me over the last year and a half was how do we move what we are already building for our merchants, helping them grow with their subscribers into a more agentic future where we can set subscription growth on autopilot for our merchants, particularly given the current environment of more fiscal responsibility. So that's been an exciting shift for me, how do we move into this AI era as a company that was built in 2009?

[00:02:53] Andrew Michael: Yeah. I think specifically in the payment space, this is one of the biggest areas where things are evolving quite fast. I think entire models are shifting and changing. I think the traditional SaaS models moving more towards a usage-based pricing model. I think there's a whole bunch of shifts and changes, which I think a lot of that is actually what we'll be chatting about today. I think Recurly regularly comes out with a State of Subscriptions and the 2026 report would have been released by the time this episode comes out. So we're getting a sneak peek, but it might be a little bit late on that. But excited to chat a little bit about that today as well. 

[00:03:29] Andrew Michael: Maybe just going to the question on that, what has been one of your most interesting findings so far with the way things are changing when it comes to subscriptions and payments and with this new AI boom? Is there anything that's really stood out to you that you saw… I wouldn't have expected that, but it makes sense now that it's happening?

[00:03:48] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I think just customers or subscribers' acceptance of subscriptions managed through AI or AI usage has definitely drastically improved, particularly given all of the consumer adoption of large language models through ChatGPT, Gemini, et cetera. And so we are envisioning a future where AI recommendations can directly go into a subscriber merchant interaction experience that can then make it easy for the subscribers' intent to come through. 

[00:04:21] Priya Lakshminarayanan: So in our State of Subscriptions Report, which is an annual data-driven industry report that we publish that serves as benchmarks for the subscription economy, one of the key findings we found is that the pause, where previously merchants used to think of pause as, hey, that's churn, I need to prevent it, but it's more of a tool in their tool set now where subscribers are expecting that pause and those actions can be intelligently offered at the right moments. If there's not enough engagement, for example, you can proactively offer a pause so that it doesn't result in a cancel. So there are various ways in which we can apply the new set of actions based on insights and data that we have.

[00:05:12] Andrew Michael: Yeah. I think it's very interesting as well, specifically around the usage-based pricing. And now if we think a lot of the prosumer market, I think where some of these LLM models are operating within is that there is a lot of periodic use now of software, whereas in the past we used to try to sell this ongoing nature. Now it's really about what are the results being delivered, and you don't always need those results. And so it makes sense that you would see a lot more of this activity happening with people wanting to pause and then come back when the time is right. And something we face, I think at Hotjar, we noticed a lot of reactivation and at some point… became a significant portion of the business was the reactivation revenue just due to this periodic nature of people pausing and coming back.

[00:05:53] Andrew Michael: And are you seeing anything interesting that customers are doing now to really focus on re-engaging that audience to be able to reactivate and bring back those post-customers? What are some of the interesting things you're seeing customers exploring in the space?

[00:06:07] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah. I think previously it used to be all about acquisition, but we are definitely seeing a lot more focus on retention and retention strategies through engagement. Recurly also has a product called Recurly Engage that specifically helps with that. The thing that we see there is how do you understand subscriber behaviour on your app? What are they trying to do? And provide timely engagement experiences that then allows you to retain them

[00:06:38] Priya Lakshminarayanan: So one example is as they are moving to cancel, you can understand their lifetime value and say, okay, this subscriber likely will go hit cancel right now. Maybe I preempt that action with what we call a prompt. Just prompt them in the right moment to say, hey, if I give you 50% off, you can stay on for an additional three months, six months, et cetera, that will then help them retain on the platform. 

[00:07:06] Priya Lakshminarayanan: The other trend we are seeing is also one of micro-subscriptions, if you will. So we can pass this to a game or for a very short period of time, help them understand the benefit of the platform so they can then subscribe to longer-term plans once they feel the value. I mean, even our family, right? We have a Tesla, the FSD prompts keep coming up, hey, do you want to try FSD this weekend? And once my husband tried it, he's now never going back. We are paying that monthly subscription. So I think those are interesting ways to get subscribers introduced to new offerings and then drive the engagement from that and then help retain or grow or expand with existing subscriber base.

[00:07:55] Andrew Michael: Yeah, I think that is very interesting. I think, actually, I was looking yesterday at Tesla and I'm going to go back to my search because I'm also busy looking for a new car. And I think, unfortunately, we don't have FSD in Cyprus. But the thing that you mentioned now, I think, makes a lot of sense in the context of ANR specifically as well, because previously in the past, the costs to offer free trials were relatively low and minimal. But now, since we've introduced the LLMs and there's this direct cost associated with delivering the service, which is exponentially more than it was in the past, it's become restrictive now to be able to actually give that free trial and then offering. And so what are some of the interesting ways you're seeing people create these trial experiences? So in Tesla's case, now this is popping up, try things out for the weekend. I'm assuming that's also a paid trial. Is it a paid trial for the FSD?

[00:08:47] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah, I mean, it's like… FSD, no, it's a free trial. Like you could try it and then you can then subscribe to the monthly. But we're also seeing, for example, Amazon Prime has a pay-per-view, right? Like you could see a particular show on a specific channel that you want by pay-per-view for that show. If you enjoy it, then you can buy one episode and then you can then expand further. There are interesting models that come up like that.

[00:09:15] Priya Lakshminarayanan: And healthcare subscriptions have seen substantial growth over the last year on our platform. And we see those models apply there as well. You're not sure if a particular supplement is going to work for you. You don't want to sign up for an annual plan in that case. You want to start with a smaller micro-subscription, see how that goes, and then have the opportunity to then grow into a more longer-term plan. So those are all things that merchants are thinking of right now, specifically in particular industries.

[00:09:48] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Digital media and entertainment, for example, is ripe for… is already saturated with so many different channels. And so that's one area where just offering a micro-subscription can help retain subscribers more actively.

[00:10:03] Andrew Michael: Yeah. And I think things are evolving again, as I said in this space. I think one of the things I've also noticed, there's this commentary on LinkedIn, and I'm not sure I buy into it yet myself either, but there's this idea that we've seen this rapid growth for AI startups, and then everybody will start to challenge what churn and retention looks like on the backend. The faster they grow, the harder they fall, or whatever it is. I've seen many people commenting on this, and I think, what are you seeing actually in reality in the data as well? These hyper-growth startups that we haven't seen in the past, are you seeing extraordinary levels of churn, or is this just something that is chatter on LinkedIn that people don't really have a good settle point on yet because it's way, way too early still to come out with the concrete data?

[00:10:54] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah. I think what we're seeing is subscribers have a mental limit on the overall number of subscriptions that they want to use. We've seen that 51% of subscribers cancelled at least one subscription in the last 12 months. Given that, yes, churn is a significant problem, but that's where if you showcase value and you consistently engage them based on the prior usage and net new functionality that you want to offer, we're seeing that win-back campaigns are able to retain them. In the AI world, definitely, there are many lookalike services that come up. The important thing is, how do you differentiate yourself in order to both retain and win-back? That becomes important.

[00:11:48] Andrew Michael: Yeah. I think more so now as well that it's become so cheap to build things and the number of competitors is exponentially growing now because anybody who was previously a PM or designer – 

[00:12:04] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Sales agent. 

[00:12:06] Andrew Michael: Exactly. They can just start to generate… I think sales agents is one thing. My inbox now, I used to read some of it. Now, I've just given up on it. I just scan for keywords. I used to try… pride myself in replying to everybody that reached out. Now, there's absolutely zero chance that's happening anywhere. I think this is happening though across all sectors of software and many different spaces. 

[00:12:28] Andrew Michael: I think one of the things you have in the study is talking a little bit about the top factors that are motivating loyalty because I think loyalty is going to be really important and key thing for people to start thinking about when there can be abundance of competitors, what's really going to make you stand out because it's almost no longer really going to be the software. To some extent, you can maybe argue that the UX is going to make a difference, but I think that edge will slowly erode as well. What are some of the things you found within the study that you found interesting when it came to driving custom loyalty and motivating it?

[00:13:00] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I think the key things that we found were around transparency and very clear billing practises, not being surprised later. You signed up for paying X, but you find out that everything's said and done, you're paying X plus Y. That definitely turns subscribers off. Having personalised content, personalised engagement that drives loyalty. Ease of cancellation actually drives loyalty, particularly because subscribers are now actively managing the total dollars spent on overall subscriptions. If you provide a way to easily pause or cancel, then that subscriber is going to come back over the long term versus if you make it so difficult then they're like, I need to find a way to get out of this. Those are some top three things that come to mind.

[00:13:56] Andrew Michael: Yeah, I think it's no surprise. I think in terms of transparency, I think that with transparency comes trust. I think that trust is going to be a critical element that people need to know, okay, I can trust this business. They're going to be around. They're going to be the ones that are going to be able to deliver the service because I think if there's just new competitors popping every day, you don't really have a good sense and understanding of who is actually legit, who's going to be there. Any business you can see that's really following best practises when it comes to transparency, ethical, and that's like, will stand out and have an edge in the markets.

[00:14:32] Andrew Michael: Nice. And then you mentioned already, but it was 50% of consumers have cancelled the subscription within the last 12 months to be like one to two. These tend to be lower priced subscriptions as well. So I'm wondering how much difference did you see in the data when it comes to the price of the product and then if reasons change as a result of that. So in this study, you have like a generic reasons for cancellation in the last 12 months. And I think like the top point that was not using it enough. Do you see this consistent across like the price of these products or with any variances like with the really cheap prosumer prices versus like a high-end subscription, maybe a B2B SaaS company would be doing?

[00:15:15] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah, this is predominantly in direct-to-consumer price range between anywhere between $5 to $19.99. That's where we predominantly see this behaviour. And I think this presents a very clear opportunity for businesses to improve early engagement for subscriptions within this price point and personalise some value delivery and then drive some usage-based retention programmes. So you see somebody sign up, first three months, not much activity, then you want to put some either offers in front of them or some way they can engage with your product better. And that would then drive the retention versus an early cancellation.

[00:16:02] Andrew Michael: Yeah, absolutely. The one thing actually I found interesting going through the data itself as well was the average monthly customer churn rates. That's actually on the page 16, I think of the [inaudible] reports, you have a quote there as well, looking at it now, is that education customer churn rates decreased for education businesses, which I found that at least in my mental model, a bit counterintuitive considering that knowledge abundance now with ChatGPT and the like and seeing a lot of the education-based publicly traded companies really taking a big hit in the market. Why do you think this is happening where this is decreasing for education?

[00:16:44] Andrew Michael: Across the board, there's a couple of other ones like digital media and entertainment decreased slightly. But on aggregates, I think the only space where we've seen an increase really is healthcare. And I would have expected to see more churn across the board rather than less just due to the obviously number of players entering the space and then more abundance and choice. But maybe first one, why do you think education specifically? Because that's the only one that's really had a decent level in reduction in aggregates.

[00:17:10] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah, it went down from 6.1% to 5.7%. I think the reason could be that the edtech companies are figuring out added value on top of just basic prompting and response where it's also validated content. If you're providing a subject matter expert who's delivering content versus you're not sure if the AI is hallucinating a response back to you. I think that might be driving this reduction as well. That's just my guess, honestly. We might have to dig further into the data to understand specifically which education sector companies and what kind of programmes or offers they have.

[00:17:54] Andrew Michael: For sure. What was the most surprising thing that came out to study for you specifically? Was there anything that you read and you're like, hmm, that's surprising?

[00:18:04] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah, I think the most surprising thing is the normal notion is that churn is bad. But what I think would be a good takeaway from this is sort of selective churn, it sort of reflects stronger consumer intent and not fatigue. And so customers or merchants should use this as an opportunity to provide the easy cancellation, the pause, all of the earlier aspects that we spoke about, and not think of churn as goodbye.

[00:18:34] Andrew Michael: Top of mind. Yeah. I think as well, I feel as a consumer, this is true to me as well, where I've started to use maybe more services, I tend to cancel the services, but I'm much more willing to go back to them as well when and as needed. And I see that as a pattern amongst colleagues and friends as well. So I think that's going to be definitely interesting challenge and space for people to figure out next is how do you handle this periodic nature and how do we still retain relationships or maybe not retain business, these consumers and customers going forward.

[00:19:07] Priya Lakshminarayanan: And the pattern we saw also is that churn rate might increase maybe during the holiday period, October through December, people are… they want holiday gifts, spending money. So they're trying to cut back on something else, but then it actually picks up back in February through April. So that's the time when you should be moving forward with retention programmes or engagement programmes or win back campaigns, knowing that this periodic cycle is a pattern.

[00:19:38] Andrew Michael: Is a pattern. Yeah. No, I think that that is interesting. I think it's also like you have more time at the end of the year to actually reflect and say, Hey, like, why am I spending all this money? I have too many of those. The other thing I think was interesting, like going through it was the… just taking a look at the transactions by payment method and how much they differed when it came to EU versus US. I think the biggest thing that for me stood out was like EMEA is much more prevalent PayPal than the US was. And I wouldn't have expected that, like I thought it would have been the opposite. Like knowing your background, like, why do you think that is? Like, why do you think PayPal is so much more prevalent in Europe and Middle East as opposed to the US?

[00:20:24] Priya Lakshminarayanan: We've definitely seen higher adoption of alternate payment methods like PayPal in EMEA. I think PayPal represents trust, right? So it's a very, very high trust brand. You look at that orange button, you don't think about you're going to get defrauded or your credit card information is going to get stolen. So I think that sort of expands further into you know, how subscribers maybe think in the European market. Like they want, you know, high trust… they engage more with high trust brands. And in the US market, credit card has been high trust in subscribers' minds by default. Just the usage of credit card has been so, so prevalent that that constitutes high trust. But I think in EMEA, debit has always been number one. And then apart from that PayPal, I think it's due to the trust factor.

[00:21:20] Andrew Michael: Trust, yeah. I think in the US we also have a much more robust credit card reward system. We have it here, the concept here in EMEA, but it's not as prevalent where people live to get credit points and things in the US.

[00:21:35] Priya Lakshminarayanan: The other factor could also be that the rewards can be offered in the US because there's interchange fees in the US, whereas the interchange fees are very minimal.

[00:21:47] Andrew Michael: Yeah. The other thing as we're reading it, which was stood out to me was that there's a high prevalence, if I read it correctly, of alternative payments such as like Apple Pay and PayPal in EMEA, but they tend to be good for initial transactions, but then they carry like a higher renewal decline risk. Like, could you speak to that a little bit? Like why would something like an Apple Pay or PayPal have a higher risk of decline over a credit card or debit card?

[00:22:16] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah. I think with Apple Pay and PayPal, the reason might be that if you in the background switch… these are wallets, right? So you could have multiple cards in those wallets. If you switch from a default card, one that you used initially for the initial signup transaction, and then your wallet default card is switched, maybe that doesn't have sufficient funds, then there's a higher chance of decline. Whereas if you have put down a particular credit card that then continues into the renewal transactions on the credit card side, then there's a higher chance that the authorisation will go through because it has been already asked for that amount earlier on. So that could be one of the reasons why the renewal declines. Just because those are wallets and the payment methods in the wallets can get added, removed, and then maybe that's not the right one for that particular subscription renewal.

[00:23:11] Andrew Michael: Yeah. It's interesting because you might like run an experiment that's like, okay, let's introduce PayPal to see if we increase conversions. Great success, but without even realising you're really impacting churn and attention on the other end. And that's something you'd only see like whether it's 30 days or 12 months from then, but having access to some of this.

[00:23:33] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Yeah. This is where products like Recurly then come in handy quite a bit because then we have the right retry mechanisms. We understand, okay, we can try a different payment method within that wallet. We can try other payment methods that the subscriber might have vaulted with us. So different times of day, various ways that we could try the retries, as well as we have done in campaigns where it's a follow-up process. Update a payment method. Maybe the subscriber could then at the time, then go back into their PayPal wallet and make sure the right payment method is the default one. So those are all options that Recurly does in the background for our merchants. So they don't have to worry about leaving money on the table.

[00:24:20] Andrew Michael: Yep. I was going through… I think that's like most of the points that you hit on the next slide in the report. So I think from Recurly's standpoint, well-positioned, obviously, to help solve some of these challenges, challenges all today and last time. I think it's one of those products as well that not necessarily solve the underlying causes for churn and retention in your business, but will solve all the low-hanging fruits, the stuff that you shouldn't even have to worry about to begin with, like the involuntary churn that's happening that can have really big impacts really fast as well introducing something like that.

[00:24:55] Priya Lakshminarayanan: And for voluntary churn, we introduced a new product this year called Recurly Engage, that's where it can help you with the cancel-save flows, just bringing the right intervention at the right time to your subscribers.

[00:25:07] Andrew Michael: Cool. And then the other, maybe last one to touch on, I think before I dive into [inaudible] time, is that another interesting thing that came out was that 78% of merchants are now offering a monthly and annual plan. But again, this is like maybe one of those things where the service level looks great, but then what's also being seen on the other side is the renewal rate has dropped from 82% to 23%, 82.9% to 23%. So that's quite a significant drop on annual renewals. What do you think is driving that? I think I could have a lot of different assumptions of why this is happening, but maybe you have more context in the data behind it.[00:25:49] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I would say that having both plans is an absolute must, right? So that you can bring in subscribers who are of the mentality of try before you buy or shorter term and then see the value and then expand to long term. The annual subscription… the renewal moment definitely is a point of churn, and merchants should understand that. And that's when they have to really highlight the value that you've derived from it over the last year or so, and why continuing to stay on is important. And that's the moment where they can craft the right offers to keep the subscriber on the platform. 

[00:26:30] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I would say, given that it's a point of churn, this is where offering downgrade paths is going to be important, where instead of saying, hey, renew for another full 12 months, based on their engagement and usage pattern of the service, you could say, hey, we see that you haven't actually used as much, and this is where transparency and being straight with your subscriber can really help. You might actually want to try this smaller plan. I think those types of offers could really help at that renewal moment.

[00:27:02] Andrew Michael: Yeah, I think I've seen some other brands as well 

where they actually end up cancelling subscriptions for their customers and say, hey, you've not been using this. Here's your money back, even to some degree. And that's almost like, you know, the people saying, why are you giving me my money back? I don't want my money back. Like, just take my money. But actually, I read it wrong, so I want to make a correction as well that it's not… didn't drop from 82% to 23%. But it's just the rate has dropped to 82.9% annual renewal on aggregates with only 23% of failed renewals recovered. So it's becoming harder, but not as bad as I thought it was.

[00:27:41] Andrew Michael: In my mind, I was thinking as well, because I think there are a lot of services as well now where they're offering really competitive deals to switch to yearly. But then as well, a lot of people may be taking the deals, but then realising, okay, I'm just not using this anymore. And there's a new service and stuff. And with more competition, I think that could lead to the reason. Anyway, what's one thing that you know today about churn and retention that you wish you knew when you got started with your career?

[00:28:10] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I think I touched on this earlier, which is don't treat churn as goodbye. Those subscribers are still yours to win back if you put your heart and mind to it.

[00:28:21] Andrew Michael: Very nice. And then a question, maybe because you'veobviously been in the payment space for a long time now, you've probably advised a lot of different startups on their stack and process. What's one question that you wish more people would consider or ask when it came to payments, but they don't?

[00:28:39] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I think when merchants want to think about, okay, what's the payment stack I want to use? It's not only about... I mean, of course, everybody's thinking of how much is this going to cost me and authorisation rates, payments performance, et cetera. I think an important thing to also think about is what kind of partnership you get from that payment service provider. Are they going to be your thought partner in designing the offering the right way with you? And how do they play well with other vendors and partners in the ecosystem, such as fraud providers, chargeback providers, et cetera?

[00:29:19] Andrew Michael: Nice. So you should always be considering as well, not just the cost, but how you can actually collaborate and work together with the provider.

[00:29:27] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Like a better together solution for the merchant overall.

[00:29:31] Andrew Michael: Yeah. To figure it out. So we are up on time. Before we drop off today, I just want to say thank you very much. It's been really interesting to chat through some of this data. And I'm sure that the audience, like us, we will leave these in the show notes. Hopefully by the time this episode is, you'll be able to check it out there directly. Is there any final thoughts you want to leave us with today before we drop off?

[00:29:50] Priya Lakshminarayanan: I just want to say that, first of all, thank you for having me. This has been an interesting conversation for me as well. The state of subscription rewards, it just acts as a benchmark. So I hope all your listeners derive a lot of value from the analysis that we've put forth there. We also included a checklist at the end. So if you are a direct-to-consumer brand looking to drive churn down our retention up and drive growth for your business, then there are specific things that you could check for across different categories. So I hope that the listeners will use that as well.

[00:30:24] Andrew Michael: Amazing. And again, yeah, we'll make sure to leave that in the show notes as well. But thanks again for joining, Priya. Really, really appreciate the time and wish you best of luck going forward.

[00:30:34] Priya Lakshminarayanan: Thank you so much, Andrew. Thank you for having me.

[00:30:42] Andrew Michael: And that's a wrap for the show today with me, Andrew Michael. I really hope you enjoyed it and you're able to pull out something valuable for your business. To keep up to date with Churn.FM, be notified about new episodes, blog posts, and more, subscribe to our mailing list by visiting churn.fm. Also, don't forget to subscribe to our show on iTunes, Google Play, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you have any feedback, good or bad, I would love to hear from you. And you can provide your blunt, direct feedback by sending it to andrew@churn.fm. Lastly, but most importantly, if you enjoyed this episode, please share it and leave a review as it really helps get the word out and grow the community. Thanks again for listening. See you again next week.